modesty and purity has been on my mind lately...so i thought "what if i had modesty mondays" on my blog....but here it is thursday and i'm writing about modesty. i thought i'd start with this letter...and maybe i'll actually have a few "modesty mondays" later on...the more i hear and the more i see the more i realize how "out of style" modesty is....and that's ok. that doesn't make it any less honorable or valuable.
this letter was written back in october of 2004 by my dear friend dee dee. it meant alot to me then and it means alot to me now....and i wanted to share it. it's pretty self-explanatory. maybe it'll spark some thought...
Dear Ones,
This is going to be a long letter. I have a lot on my heart – a lot to say. So with that introduction (bet I’ve got your attention), it concerns the subject of “modesty.” We talk about it a lot in Teen Advisors; we tell our girls, “dress modestly.” And I kept thinking, “we’re not really defining that---what exactly is modest?---when have you crossed the line?----where is the line?” I go back and forth in my mind. On the one hand I’ve heard our TA guys talk about how they much they want to keep their minds pure—how major that is for most of them—and I’ve heard over and over from them that girls have no idea the affect that some of their clothing has on those male minds. On the other hand, I’m a female and like most of us I want to dress stylishly and I want to be feminine in my appearance. So on our minds is “what’s in style, what looks best on me, what makes me feel good when I wear it." And we all know that most girls want guys to notice them—to find them attractive. And they know how they look might get their attention.
So, I began my own little research project – I wish I could have done it on some kind of grand scale but didn’t know how and didn’t have time. I decided the best source for a definition was not other females, but males. Why? Because they are the ones who struggle as a result of how we dress. Now, I really want to be clear here: I am NOT out to create a dress code. My goal is not to tell you how to dress or what you should and should not wear. I simply wanted to know from Godly young men (and some older young men) the answer to this question: “What do females wear that make it difficult for you to guard your mind?” And I thought you too might want to know their answers to that question. I did not talk to just any males about all females. I talked only to fellows that I knew loved the Lord and made a concentrated effort to keep their thoughts and hearts pure. I wanted their thoughts only about you, their sisters in Christ, Godly women. And I chose those guys that I knew would be motivated only by their love and concern for you---who cared about you and cared about how other males looked at you. I asked that they not give me their “opinions,” but rather what was personally a temptation for them.
I have tried to combine all that was said (and they had a lot to say)—tried to pick comments and quotes – that represent the majority. I’ve been around a long time, raised 3 daughters and hung out with teenagers for bunches of years. I learned a lot. I came away with the realization that I, like most other females, just didn’t understand how it was for them -- that all these years my standard for modesty has definitely not been high enough – that I’ve let the world’s opinion of style infiltrate my thinking and manipulate my views about what is okay for my girls (and other girls I love) to wear. I now realize that a huge gap exists between how a female views her clothing and how a male see her in those clothes. We are not wired the same way therefore we do not think the same way, and I’m not real sure we’re capable of understanding those differences. But I do know we can listen to them and try to at least hear what they want us to know.
I’ll begin with things most of them wanted you to know first. So this is kind of “first things first:”
1) They want you to understand that they realize they have the major responsibility here to protect their own minds – to determine to keep their thoughts pure – to not even crack the door to lustful imaginations. They expressed shame at the fact that a girl who cares about modesty (could even be covered in loose clothing from head to toe) and due to absolutely no fault of hers, they were capable of indulging his sexual imagination.
2) Many of them expressed concern that what they said was going to make it difficult for you to even find the clothing were describing.
3) They wanted to say that they know most of you are not trying to dress seductively -- that they believed you just didn’t understand the affect some clothes had on a guy’s imagination. But at the same time all of them just couldn’t get why you didn’t realize. “Surely they have to know.” Note: It was during this discussion that I became so aware of this gap that exists in our understanding of how sexually different God created us.
I asked, “What do our girls need to know? If you could talk to them from your heart, what do you want to warn them about, caution them about with respect to these questions?” (so here we go—my questions, their responses):
1) Are there any specific clothing items that are “red flags” (meaning: Stop! Danger ahead! Do not wear!)
a. They all said it: soffe shorts (cheerleading shorts). “Those are terrible!!” It was not only that they were short but also the type of material. It was noted that even when the waistband is not rolled, still not good. One guy said, “They are the worst thing in the world.” One added, “And tell me why on top of everything else, a girl would want words written across her rear end; don’t they know that’s just drawing a terrible kind of attention to that area.” I asked one, “Then what should they wear when they work out.” He said, “Tell them, ‘don’t work out with guys!’” Another said, “When girls are doing anything in those shorts—even just walking, no guys need to be around.”
b. Other clothing mentioned: Note: though not unanimous, it was the majority:
1. Halter tops (this continues into #2)
2. Actually anything backless – part of the problem here is evidently that it lets them know you’re not wearing a bra. One said, “It’s entirely too much for the imagination.”
3. Strappy tops (mixed reviews on these types of “spaghetti strap tops.”) Some said it’s okay if no part of the girls breast is showing. Others: okay if everything is covered and they are not tight. Others said they wanted you to know you were just drawing the wrong kind of attention to specific areas. Others said those kind of tops left too much skin showing. Pretty much the consensus was “If you want to be on the safe side, don’t wear them.”
4. Tube tops (or tops with no straps that you have to keep pulling up)—again issues with amount of skin showing and their attention being drawn to specific areas
5. Anything that laces up (not talking about shoes, I’m sure you realize)
2) When is it too low cut?
About tops: They want you to know all tops need to completely cover the breast. “No cleavage, period.” “If any cleavage at all shows, it’s too low cut.” “If anything at all is showing, it’s like pulling the trigger in my mind.” “There needs to be nothing showing.” I asked most of them again: “What if everything is covered but it’s a strappy or strapless top.” Consensus: “It’s not a problem but it’s close to being a problem,” and “They need to know that guys minds can be so warped, anything will spark their mind to think things.” Most felt that the more curves you have the more covered up you need to be.
About shorts/skirts: “If the waist is cut low enough to see underwear (even if it’s just when you sit down), it’s a problem.” When I asked about a little midriff showing between top and pants, most said, it’s really best if no skin shows at all. “Even if their underwear doesn’t show, if their belly button shows (more so if it’s an inch or so below that) the thought is “what kind of underwear are they wearing or are they even wearing underwear.”
About both: “If you can’t bend over without something showing, it’s too low cut.”
3) When is it too short?
Same comment as above: “If you can’t bend over without something showing, it’s too short.” “If you have to think, ‘Is this too short?’ please don’t wear it.” “Actually the school rule is a good one: not above the tips of your fingers when your arm is hanging by your side.” Some said no shorter than mid thigh.
About shorts: One took the time to measure --- “no shorter than a 4” inseam.” That made me laugh! Note: in case you don’t know how to measure an inseam—start at the crotch of the pants and measure along the leg seam to the bottom of the hemline. I checked that measurement out with all the fellows I talked to after that and all agreed that was a “safe” length.
About skirts: “Short skirts are worse than short pants.” Some thought mid thigh was as short as they should be. Most thought that was still too short. “Skirts that are shorter than just above the knee---those just are not right.” “Those really short skirts with the ruffle, do girls really think those are ok?”
NOTE: over and over again in different ways they said, “If it attracts attention to what you might be able to see, it creates a mental picture that they don’t want guys to be having.”
4) When is it too tight?
“If it just fits nicely, it’s okay.” “When you are actually seeing curves, definite lines of those curves, it’s too tight” “…when you can definitely define where something starts and where it ends.” “That stretchy material that all their clothes are now made of makes everything worse.” “It’s less of a problem when the material is thick and there are pockets.” “Tight and short combined is doubly bad.” “When I look at a girl and I see their body instead of their clothes on their body, then that’s not good.”
Now, here are some other important-to-be-noted-kind-of-miscellaneous comments:
1) A lot of skin showing is definitely an issue—that’s why I’m mentioning it again (especially if all that skin implies not wearing underwear). “It’s just too much for the imagination to feed off of.” Examples of that: backless, strapless.
2) “It’s not just what shows, it’s what you think might show.” I guess this was the biggest thing I learned and it was a definite theme echoed among these fellows: even when everything is covered--and we females might think that defines modesty-- the trigger for impure thoughts can often be something a lot more subtle.
3) When I brought up tight clothes, they often had comments concerning “breezy,” “flow-y,” “floppy” material (It really was funny to hear them try to describe material) I’d say when clothes fit loosely over strategic areas---- tops that have a sweeping neck line, even button up tops where buttons are left undone, take caution. “….if I think I might be able to see something…” Also (this is a bit of an outdated style but I’ll mention it because I’m sure it will resurface) holes in clothing (like old jeans) are a problems especially if they are in strategic places (again triggers for the imagination).
3) For most all, if it seems to them that you are “purposely going for the effect” (meaning to get a sexual response from them)—that “you want to look seductive”—then it increases the temptation for impure thoughts. And for most all, their response was not that the girl looked “hot” but “trashy.” “There are certain ways girls dress that makes you think that they not only want you to look but also that they want you to think sexual things---that’s bad when guys think you want that to happen.” I’m going to elaborate here. I made up a situation: A girl is going shopping to find a top to go with her new pants. She finds just the right one—likes the color, the cut—feels like she looks good in it—and sure just a little cleavage shows but she thinks, “Its only a little bit, that will be okay.” The guys comment was simply, “It’s NOT! – It’s not okay.”
4) Extra note about this word “trashy.” It was interesting to me as we talked about clothes that were too tight, too low cut, too short, none of the guys thought clothing that crossed the line was “attractive.” Though they admitted they had to struggle to not give it their attention, the word they kept using to describe the girl was “trashy.” “Trashy” was mentioned more than a few times when talking about being able to see underwear (bra straps, panties, etc.)
5) I mentioned early in this letter that we all know that most girls want guys to notice them—to find them attractive. And they know how they look might get their attention. So when I was talking with these fellows I tried to explain that quite possibly a girl could dress up her figure thinking she looked nice and there be no sexual motive in that whatsoever. “They just want you to notice them.” The comment I got back: “They do not want that kind of attention from me—they do not want me having those kinds of thoughts about them.” Another guy: “Certainly they don’t want me staring at them like that.”
6) Just three more quotes I thought were good so I found a place to include them. I got this one from the paper (it’s good): “The clothes a girl chooses to wear tells me what she wants me to think of her.” Here’s another great quote from one of our guys: “If there is enough visible to create an illusion, the male mind will finish the picture whether you want them to or not. You do not want a guy playing that kind of mind game when they look at you.” Some book author offered this one (don’t know who): “If its not available, don’t put it on the menu” – pretty clever, I thought.
So that’s all the info I collected. I wish I could have presented it back to you in a more orderly way – and definitely in a shorter way. But I do have some last thought so please indulge me for a few more paragraphs. I deeply appreciate two things about these fellows who were willing to talk to me – I know it was, at times, uncomfortable for them since I’m a mother/grandmother. First I am thankful for their honesty—it was a risk realizing that their views might not be well received by some females. Secondly I am thankful for their hearts—Their motives in sharing so honestly (3 motives I think): 1) that they want to help you understand. 2) that they need your help as they try to be better men of God and 3) Several talked about taking the “safe” choice (“When you consider it too short, too tight, too low cut, make the safe decision”). I thought about how often they used that word, “safe,” and it occurred to me that they know and understand a world you and I are not really able to grasp. They want to warn you of the danger – because they genuinely care about you and because they want you to be safe.
By the way, go ahead and ask the guys you know if they agree with what’s been said. There will be some difference of opinion – I found that as well. Keep in mind I’ve tried to reflect the majority opinion. What you do with all this information is ultimately between you and God. I’ve already said I’m not out to create a dress code. But I do pray—for you and for me as well—that when we get dressed everyday, we’ll just check our outfit with the Lord. “If Jesus was coming over for a visit, would I wear this.” That will definitely answer the question, “is it modest?”
Okay, one more paragraph --- I told you I had a lot to say (I hope I didn’t lose you back on page two). I believe in modesty (and preach it) but I realized I didn’t know enough—no one ever really taught me much about the subject (that’s not a very good excuse). Anyway once I spoke to our fellows (lots of them), I realized how hard they try and how difficult we females sometimes make it for them to maintain their integrity and their efforts to keep a mind pure. One of those fellows is an old TA - 28 years old and still single. After all these years, his purity is still a badge of honor. He told me that during the two years he taught high school he was afraid to even look any of the girls in the eye ---- because of the clothes they all wore, he was petrified his eyes would stray in the wrong direction. That story, his frustration and confusion – his not understanding why those girls didn’t get it – made me willing to totally reshape my ideas on this subject of modesty. It doesn’t really matter whether I think it looks good---whether it’s in style or that every one else is wearing it. It only matters that how I dress could be an issue that causes my brother to stumble. “The right thing is….not to do anything if it hurts my brother’s conscience or makes him stumble … or weakens him.” (Rom. 14:21 Amp.)
I’m all done.
I love you precious ladies (young and a little bit older) This letter was written in the Spirit of Love—I pray you receive it that way.
Dee Dee
